This week we are sharing a couple of popular episodes since Brandi is out of town! Episode 41 is when to give up on an idea and 49 is the value of actually judging books by their covers.

Takeaways from this episode:

• Your design must tie together three things:
  1-the problem it is solving,
  2-the audience it needs to reach,
  3-and the concept based on the problem.

If something isn’t working, ask yourself, why? Why is this not working? 

• Scrapping ideas/designs happens less when you keep yourself focused on your process and what you set out to do
• When you start to ask yourself why (design math) you are able to find specific parts of the design that are not and are working.

Answering the 3 questions of design will help it not seem so overwhelming. “Does this match the concept? Does this appeal to the audience, and does it answer or solve the problem?”

• Sometimes you don’t even need to scrap the whole idea completely. You may just need to change some things so that it answers the three questions.
• It’s okay to judge a book by it’s cover! If you want to get better at critiquing others work you can look at a book cover and try and guess what you think the book is about, then turn it over and see if you’re right. You can also try it for fun too

• Sometimes book covers are intentionally designed to deceive you. So if a cover doesn’t make sense, it could be done for a reason and you should try and figure out why. 
• But remember, good design on a book cover is key. (obviously, good design is key all the time) On a book cover though, most people won’t buy a book that is not recommended to them if the design isn’t good.

• You can also see trends in book covers. Trends in color or typeface. 
• The cover of the book is like the trailer of a movie. And it’s a skill to draw people in toward the book you want them to read.
• If you want to get into something specific in design, ex. Book covers, you need to study and make sure you include all the necessary elements in a book cover.
• There are so many interesting things you can do with a book cover because there are so many interpretations you can get from a book. 

Please rate and review our podcast in iTunes and if you want to support our show please go to Patreon.com/designspeaks we would love it! You can give as much as you want. Every little bit goes to helping us keep this podcast going.

Thank you to Vesperteen for allowing us to use his song Shatter in the Night as our intro and outro music for Design Speaks

Want to support us?

Go to Patreon and help support our podcast!

Find us on all forms of social media via @BrandiSea on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and you can email us any burning questions you want Brandi to answer on an episode at brandi@brandisea.com.

THANK YOU to the ultra-talented  Vesperteen (Colin Rigsby) for letting us use his (“Shatter in The Night”) track in every episode of Design Speaks.

TRANSCRIPTION:

Intro: 00:01 Welcome to Design Speaks. This lovely podcast is brought to you by graphic design geek and a regular human being. AKA a non-designer. We’re here to chat them out, music, pop culture, cool places or basically whatever we feel is relevant.

Michelle: 00:19 Hey, my name is Michelle and you’re listening to episode 111 of Design Speaks on today’s episode of Design Speaks. We are throwing it back to not one but two oldie but goodie episodes. Episode 41 happened because a listener decided to message in and ask when to know if we should scrap an idea or if we should ever scrap an idea at all. And episode 49 happened because of Brandi’s love for books. Recently we talked about judging a book by its covers, so I thought, what the heck? Why not bring back the actual episode about whether or not we should judge an actual book by its actual cover? Remember, if you have any questions, we would love to talk about them and you can message us on Instagram @designspeakspodcast or you can email us at brandi@brandisea.com. B. R A. N. D I. S. E. A. That’s brandi@brandisea.com. Okay. I hope you enjoyed the episode.

Brandi Sea: 01:18 If you love the show and want to support it so we can keep making more episodes, get to our Patreon.

Michelle: 01:24 Its patreon.com/designspeaks and you can give as little as $1 or as much as $50. You can give monthly, you can give one time whatever you want.

Brandi Sea: 01:34 We can’t do this without you.

Michelle: 01:35 We can’t do this without you. So go patreon.com/designspeaks.

Michelle: 01:41 My question for the week isn’t even my question. It came from a listener named Allie. Thank you, Allie, for chiming in. We’re now talking about your question. Um, her question is, I would love to hear thoughts about knowing when or if to scrap an idea. If you should scrap your ideas at all. Do you hit dead ends in your process and have to start fresh? So go.

Brandi Sea: 02:08 That’s actually kind of a hard question.

Michelle: 02:11 Do you,

Brandi Sea: 02:11 Good job Allie.

Michelle: 02:11 Have you ever scrapped? I know. Have you ever scrapped an idea?

Brandi Sea: 02:15 Yes.

Michelle: 02:16 Okay. Why?

Brandi Sea: 02:18 Um, okay, so reasons to scrap an idea. Um, okay. So you all know I do the process, I get a concept which is based on the problem that I’m trying to solve based on the audience I’m trying to reach. Um, and so combined. So if I get the concept based on the problem and the people I’m trying to reach, then later my design should tie to all three of those things. So my design should answer the question or the problem I’m trying to solve, my design should appeal to the audience and it should match my concept. So if I have an idea that I’m doing and it happens where I’m like, okay, I’m going along, I’m going along and something’s not working. And I’m like, okay, I need to start asking myself, why isn’t this working? Is the typeface, is that the layout? And the only time I scrap a whole idea ever instead of just parts of it is when it’s not achieving those three things. So if it’s not going to appeal to the target, if it doesn’t feel right to the concept that I’ve come up with based on the design brief and my mind map and um, it’s not helping solve the problem that the client brought to me, it’s a useless piece of design and I need to start over.

Michelle: 04:02 Does that mean you just went somewhere wrong in your process?

Brandi Sea: 04:06 Um, maybe, but most of the time that means that I wasn’t paying close enough attention as I was going and I just kind of went off the rails. But there are times where, um, I didn’t choose the correct concept because I wasn’t thinking about the problem. I was just like, this sounds like a good concept. This’ll appeal to the audience, but that’s only one of the parts.

Michelle: 04:38 Right.

Brandi Sea: 04:39 So yeah, usually I only have to scrap an idea if I’m not following the process correctly or if I just get wrapped up in designing and I’m like.

Michelle: 04:51 Which is what a lot of designers do.

Brandi Sea: 04:53 Oh, I like, yeah, I like this or this is just, I’m having like fun. Instead of doing my job, like, and having fun, I’m just having fun. I usually end up down at a terrible rabbit hole and then I have to pull myself back out and go back to my mind map and go back to my problem. And it can be frustrating. But to answer your question, yes, I think that there are often ideas that need to be scrapped, but less it will happen less often if you’re keeping like in line with the things that you should be doing.

Michelle: 05:33 So how often do you have to scrap bits and pieces of an idea?

Brandi Sea: 05:39 Um, I would say probably throughout the process and that’s where the design math part comes in because that when you start asking why you are able to then basically figure out what’s working and what’s not working. So if you’re saying, you know, um, my client’s problem is that they need to increase, uh, book sales 5% this quarter. So, um, for example, actually this is a problem one of my students has, they’re designing a, uh, a web popup ad for a bookstore. And their problem actually is that they need to increase their actual revenue by 5%. So some, some businesses problem is they just want to get people in the door. Some people just want to get their name out because they’re new, something that’s quantifiable, like a 5% increase in revenue is a much more difficult problem. So, um, I was working with her today and basically, she’s designing something. Um, but along the way she’s had to ask, okay, this is cool and it’s interesting and people will probably like to look at it, but well they click on this and when they click on it, will they go somewhere that’s going to make them want to buy a book?

Michelle: 07:13 That’s really well thought out.

Brandi Sea: 07:14 And if it doesn’t

Michelle: 07:16 What’s the point?

Brandi Sea: 07:18 Then, yeah, then you’re not solving the problem. You might be appealing to the audience, but it’s just going to be another pop-up ad where you go, oh, that’s clever, X.

Michelle: 07:26 Yeah, exactly.

Brandi Sea: 07:27 Exit out.

Michelle: 07:27 Like you tricked me.

Brandi Sea: 07:28 Exactly. So it could have been a cool design, but was it doing its job? No. So she had to scrap a couple of the ideas that she had because they weren’t incentivizing the audience to click through to even get to a place where they could buy a book even if they wanted to.

Michelle: 07:48 That’s really interesting.

Brandi Sea: 07:49 So that’s just one example, but, so that’s why asking why and like tying your design back to like those three simple things makes it not so overwhelming. It’s like, okay, does this match the concept? Does this appeal to the audience and does it answer or solve the problem?

Michelle: 08:08 And if it’s doing one or two of those three, you don’t have to scrap it. You have to change it to fit all three.

Brandi Sea: 08:14 Yes

Michelle: 08:15 That makes sense.

Brandi Sea: 08:16 Yeah. Cause then you just figure, okay, well why is this not solving the problem in that example? Okay. Maybe it’s just the way I’m asking the question or whatever it is I’m designing on here. So

Michelle: 08:30 That’s a good answer to a really good question.

Brandi Sea: 08:33 Yeah, that was a great question.

Michelle: 08:34 That I didn’t know I had.

Brandi Sea: 08:36 That you didn’t know you didn’t know.

Michelle: 08:38 Exactly. Thank you, Allie. She’s also the one who we heard from this week.

Brandi Sea: 08:43 Yeah, she had a great comment too. I’ll let you read it.

Michelle: 08:45 So she said, I really enjoy the dynamic between you and Michelle and you both genuinely seem interested in helping people improve design skills without being snarky about it.

Brandi Sea: 08:55 Oh, we’re not? I feel very snarky.

Michelle: 09:00 And I just feel genuinely interested. So we maybe were a leveling each other out.

Brandi Sea: 09:05 Yeah, just good balance.

Michelle: 09:06 She said, I’m working toward having a more solid process in my own workflow. So I appreciate when you talk about that I, I feel like.

Brandi Sea: 09:14 When do I not?

Michelle: 09:15 I know, but I feel like having a process is something that needs to be hammered into our minds in every aspect of life, not just design. I realized when I don’t have a process to cleaning the kitchen doesn’t get done like at all.

Brandi Sea: 09:31 Yeah. Yeah. And the thing about my specific process is honestly, probably gonna take a good number of these episodes for people to really grasp because I’ve also gotten a lot of comments that are like, oh yeah, I have a process.

Michelle: 09:45 But it’s not a solid process.

Brandi Sea: 09:47 It’s not the same and it’s not solving problems. So,

Michelle: 09:52 Um, that makes sense. My process for a lot of things are you have step one, two and three and don’t go out of order, but there’s a lot more to one, two and three that I don’t go dive deep into yet. So it’s helpful hearing from you. So Allie and I appreciate you.

Brandi Sea: 10:10 Awe two people.

Michelle: 10:10 Yes. Two whole people. That’s a big deal.

Brandi Sea: 10:14 Two Times. The people that you influence times the people that they influence, you know?

Michelle: 10:19 There you go. It’s like a

Brandi Sea: 10:20 I’ll take what I can get.

Michelle: 10:22 Tree. What is it?

Brandi Sea: 10:23 A tree?

Michelle: 10:23 Like, it’s rooting.

Brandi Sea: 10:25 Oh, I was thinking of like a ripple, like when you throw a rock.

Michelle: 10:27 Oh, ripple effect yeah. Got it. That’s something.

Brandi Sea: 10:29 The tree root effect.

Michelle: 10:30 I don’t know. Ripple effect effect sounds better. Ripple effect. Let’s go to bed now.

Brandi Sea: 10:36 So what’s the question today?

Michelle: 10:37 So we talked about this a little bit about book covers and you are really, really, mm. You’re really passionate about book covers.

Brandi Sea: 10:46 Yes. I’m passionate about books.

Michelle: 10:48 About books. Just literature.

Brandi Sea: 10:49 Yes.

Michelle: 10:49 In general.

Brandi Sea: 10:50 Yes.

Michelle: 10:50 But you love a good book cover.

Brandi Sea: 10:51 I do.

Michelle: 10:52 Um and book covers are really fun to look at. My favorite thing, one of my favorite memories is going to the midnight release of Harry Potter every single year since book four. So not every year, but.

Brandi Sea: 11:04 Which was what year?

Michelle: 11:06 Uh, Goblet of Fire was. I was still in high school. It was like, yeah, no, it was me. I was in middle school. I don’t remember what year that was.

Brandi Sea: 11:16 Okay. It was.

Brandi Sea: 11:19 We’re not that old, Michelle.

Michelle: 11:19 It was before 2000. Before the year 2000.

Brandi Sea: 11:22 Like it was before time began.

Michelle: 11:24 No, maybe it was just after 2000. Wow. I cannot remember what year that was.

Brandi Sea: 11:29 Okay. Sorry. Put you on the spot.

Michelle: 11:30 Sorry, I’m like, um,

Brandi Sea: 11:30 Thought you would know.

Michelle: 11:31 Early 2000.

Brandi Sea: 11:32 Thought you would know this stuff.

Michelle: 11:33 Very early 2000s. Um, so I would go to the midnight releases and then I’d come home. At the time I was living, I lived in Vegas in the summer, so I’d come home and with to my sister’s house and I would take, the first thing I did was take off the book cover and I’d unfold it, laid out and.

Brandi Sea: 11:51 The dust jacket.

Michelle: 11:52 The dust jacket. That’s what I meant, the dust jacket and had look at the entire thing and see if I could tell what this book was about by looking at the illustration. At the artwork. And it was so much fun because I was like, what the heck does this even mean?

Brandi Sea: 12:05 All the little hints and things that later you understand.

Michelle: 12:07 Like in Goblet of Fire. The biggest thing for me was what is this egg? What is this egg? And it’s obviously it’s explained in the book, but so I love a good book cover and I love looking at them. So I want to know from your perspective, how can you tell if a book cover is a good book cover? Can you judge a book by its cover? Is that fair?

Brandi Sea: 12:29 That’s fair. I think, um, so I actually did a, uh, I think I did a design tip Tuesday on this, um, where I’m actually telling people how to do this kind of as an exercise.

Michelle: 12:42 And that’s your youtube.

Brandi Sea: 12:42 Yeah, my youtube channel. Um, so I’ll start with with that because I think it’s a really cool, um, I just do it. I do weird things just by nature, but I just do this naturally. But I realize that it’s kind of a good exercise, especially if you don’t interact with a lot of people. Um, like on a team, like if you’re a freelancer and you mainly work with yourself, um, it’s hard to get into a place where you can critique other people’s work. Um, but something that you can do with books, but book by nature, um, is judge the design cover first and see if you can kind of like, so go to a bookstore, whatever bookstore you go to, pick a book that looks interesting to you or whatever and look at the cover and see if you can figure out what it’s about just by looking at the cover. Then you flip it over and you look at the back and see if you’re right.

Michelle: 13:34 And it, cuz it tells you like, it’s like a little synopsis.

Brandi Sea: 13:36 Yeah, it’s like a synopsis. And so sometimes it’s a really, it’s just like a good, um, design thinking design concept-ing practice to do, cause then you can go, okay, I can kind of see this. Like if it’s a mystery, like why they use these colors or why they use this typeface or like why most of the stuff’s in shadow or you know, sometimes it doesn’t work at all. And when it doesn’t work at all, I’m like, okay, is this because they’re trying to throw you off with the design? Like try and lead you.

Michelle: 14:06 Like it’s still intentional.

Brandi Sea: 14:06 Yeah. Like is it, and that’s what I don’t know. So that’s kind of like, those are the ones that I tend to want to read sometimes even more because it’s like, okay,

Michelle: 14:14 Yeah. Why?

Brandi Sea: 14:14 This doesn’t make sense based on the synopsis on the back or what kind of writer this is. So what’s the catch? Like, why is there this thing on the cover that doesn’t have anything to do with anything else? So that’s just a tip for you guys. If you’re feeling like you’re in a Rut and you can like figure out concept-ing like just go look at book covers.

Michelle: 14:34 Take you out of that little rut you’re in.

Brandi Sea: 14:34 Yeah. If you can figure it out. So I think that you can definitely judge a book by its cover and I will almost never unless I’ve been, you know, massively recommended a certain book, buy a book, if it doesn’t have a good design.

Michelle: 14:50 Yeah. No. Me Either. And you just feel like you’re doing yourself a disservice and everyone in the world by continuing to make purchases on a book that is just not good.

Brandi Sea: 15:00 So

Michelle: 15:01 Or it looks hokey. Cheesy

Brandi Sea: 15:02 Yeah. I, I love, I love, um, judging trends by book covers. So like, uh, I think I did a post on Instagram, not, I don’t know. I was like over the summer I think maybe, um, where I just went into a bookstore and was like, oh, I like this, I like this. And then when I got back home, I was looking through all the pictures and I’m like, I see a trend to here. There’s like brush strokey type hand lettering and really like a tropical color scheme. But they were all completely different kinds of books. They were all different authors. Um not even in the same genre. It was like fiction, nonfiction, like all kinds of history or in between. It was like this is the trend. Like

Michelle: 15:47 But was it.

Brandi Sea: 15:47 A good trend.

Michelle: 15:48 Time of the time of like, I don’t know.

Brandi Sea: 15:52 I don’t know.

Michelle: 15:53 Like the 70s the 80s?

Brandi Sea: 15:54 No, I don’t think so. And that’s what what was interesting to me. So it wasn’t um, the concepts still worked for each individual book, but they were all so different. So it was like really intriguing to me that like the color schemes and the type work was like the the thing. So as far as like, how can you judge a book by its cover, I say yes and I say, you should. Um, and, uh, I think that what I find the most interesting about classic book covers, which is why it’s one of like my goal things is that you can do so much with, you can do so much with the same thing. Like I know people who collect Jane Austin Books.

Michelle: 16:36 Right.

Brandi Sea: 16:36 And they’re all Jane Austen books. They’re all the same Jane Austin books, but they all have like just a, a different, a different interpretation of the same concept, which is like.

Michelle: 16:46 I was going to ask you about that. Yeah, that’s crazy because

Brandi Sea: 16:48 Mind-blowing.

Michelle: 16:49 I’ve seen the same book with like, it’s, it’s interesting how you perceive it because I’ve seen the same book with like a few really terrible covers and then I’ve seen the same, that same exact book with like one really interesting one that you’re like, makes me want to pick it up and read it and feel like the author is somebody completely different than they are and the other books.

Brandi Sea: 17:09 Right.

Michelle: 17:09 And it’s just weird how it has that effect on us and how powerful a book cover actually is.

Brandi Sea: 17:14 Yeah. It

Michelle: 17:15 Tells us that.

Brandi Sea: 17:15 It’s like a commercial, let’s like a commercial for the book. It’s like, you know, there’s, especially at a bookstore, there’s thousands and thousands of books that you walk by and it’s like for them to have, you know, sitting next to 15 or 20 others that they have like featured quote unquote like for you to want to grab one and pick anyone up is like, it’s a skill to design something that will draw people in like that.

Michelle: 17:41 Totally. Have you had any experience with designing book covers?

Brandi Sea: 17:46 Haha. Yes. Um, I have, yes. Um, they were mostly like, um, I don’t even know how to categorize it. They’re Christian books.

Michelle: 17:59 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 17:59 Christian like commentary type moments I guess. Um, and those were fun because honestly, like things that are a little like deeper, like things that are a little like spiritually deep are kind of harder to concept.

Michelle: 18:14 Yeah.

Brandi Sea: 18:14 It’s not like this is a story about a boy who meets a girl and they fall in love. It’s like

Michelle: 18:18 And we’re gonna do a silhouette of them almost kissing.

Brandi Sea: 18:22 Right. It’s like here, the idea for this book is that like, um, God has his, his like fingerprint on your life or something and it’s like, OK, um, how do you put something like that into something interesting? Um, so yeah, I’ve done, I’ve done a few, I’ve done like a cookbook.

Michelle: 18:43 Really?

Brandi Sea: 18:43 Yeah.

Michelle: 18:44 That’s fun.

Brandi Sea: 18:45 I’ve done a cookbook, I’ve done a couple of those books. I’ve done like just some little like booklet things, but um, yeah, I think book covers are really interesting to me and really fun. It was surprising to me when I had students, um, when I assigned, I assigned each a whole class. It was like 12 or 13 students, um, a different classic book, um, to design a cover for. And I, I don’t know why I’m always so shocked. I’m like, how do you not know, like what to put on here? It was like, um, they would just put the title on the book.

Michelle: 19:20 No! Cop out

Brandi Sea: 19:20 And like, no, like not really even have anything on the back. And I’m like, okay. So for those of you out there who want to know.

Michelle: 19:29 Yeah, no, I do. Actually. You should totally explain that to us. What goes into a book cover.

Brandi Sea: 19:34 Yeah. It’s sort of like really basic stuff that maybe that’s why maybe it’s because it’s so basic. People take it for kind of, do you have to have the author?

Michelle: 19:42 Yeah. That makes sense.

Brandi Sea: 19:43 Yeah. You have to have the title.

Michelle: 19:44 How do you like cadi, how do you put them in alphabetical order?

Brandi Sea: 19:48 Right? Yeah. You have to have a bar code somewhere. Like.

Michelle: 19:52 Yeah, usually the back bottom.

Brandi Sea: 19:53 Usually in the back somewhere. Um, if you’re doing a desk jacket as opposed to just like a cover, you have to have the flappies, the little inside flaps.

Michelle: 20:02 About the author.

Brandi Sea: 20:03 Yeah. And how you, what you do with those is up to you and you can, you can play and have fun with those. Um, you have to have a synopsis. Usually, there’s, uh, like you said a bio, there’s often review, like a little.

Michelle: 20:18 Bestselling author.

Brandi Sea: 20:19 Yeah, like so-and-so says, this book is my favorite.

Michelle: 20:22 New York Times rates this as number one.

Brandi Sea: 20:24 Yeah.

Michelle: 20:25 Whatever.

Brandi Sea: 20:25 Yeah. So, um, I think that if you’re trying to get into book design, you have to understand all the things. It’s not like, here’s just a cool design with the name of the book slapped on the front.

Michelle: 20:38 But it’s not really a foreign concept. We all live in a, we all live somewhere where library exists.

Brandi Sea: 20:44 Yes. But the

Michelle: 20:44 So we can go check it out.

Brandi Sea: 20:45 Yes. And I was just shocked at how many students came to me the day it was doing. And we’re like, well, but you didn’t tell me we had to put the author on it. And I was like, I mean.

Michelle: 20:58 I mean, you’re like an adult I think, right?

Brandi Sea: 21:01 Pretty sure yeah. Pretty sure you’ve, you have, you know how to like get dressed in the morning. I mean, it’s the same thing. Just basic things.

Michelle: 21:08 It’s like, it’s like no zip up your zipper. Like,

Brandi Sea: 21:11 Yeah, tie your shoes to keep them on. Yeah. So, um, I think that that there’s just so much really interesting, so many interesting things you can do with books because there’s any number of interpretations of the same thing.

Michelle: 21:27 Tell them about, um, what was it? The Tolkien guy? Um,

Brandi Sea: 21:32 The collect Tolkien guy?

Michelle: 21:33 Doesn’t he collect like Tolkien books that are

Brandi Sea: 21:35 Yes, yes. He collects every Tolkien book in existence. And I’ve seen so many versions of, we’ll just say.

Michelle: 21:44 The Hobbit.

Brandi Sea: 21:44 The Hobbit, or you know, like the, the, the core, but then he has like all the versions of the Silmarillion and um, like lost stories and uh, Beren and Luthien and like all these things that are the same book, but they all have these vastly different covers from like really painterly, like illustrated things to really modern where it’s just the ring, just the crown, just the towers. Um, and so I think that the opportunity in book covers is so huge. Um, you can go to any bookstore to and look at like Shakespeare and find the same book and there’s all these, the same play and there’s all these different interpretations and covers and they always do like special additions. Like, this is this year’s penguin set, and next year we’ll have a new one. And it’s like, oh my gosh, it’s like my dream job.

Michelle: 22:43 I love that. So I think my favorite thing, the takeaway from this is I’m really excited to go into a bookstore and do this now, is to look at a cover and see if I can guess what the book is about before I read the synopsis on the back.

Brandi Sea: 22:53 And even like even a little bit further, like try and try and like articulate a concept. So not just what is this book about, but what is the concept of this cover.

Michelle: 23:03 That is a fun game to play.

Brandi Sea: 23:05 Yeah. So especially when you know the book. So if it’s Romeo and Juliet and it, it’s this certain cover, what concept are they trying to push with this particular design? And that’s really fun and it’s, it’s hard. Like it actually like hurts your brain sometimes, but it’s good.

Michelle: 23:20 It’s a good little brain.

Brandi Sea: 23:22 Good pain.

Michelle: 23:22 It’s a good brain pain.

Brandi Sea: 23:24 Yeah.

Michelle: 23:24 I like that.

Brandi Sea: 23:24 So yeah, I, this is kind of just like a fun episode because I’m all into books and stuff and

Michelle: 23:31 You can too.

Brandi Sea: 23:32 And you can too. Yeah. So, but also it is a really good exercise for you guys and I hope that you try it and let me know how it worked out for you because it works out well for me.

Michelle: 23:45 Tones of fun. Brandy, where can people, I’m going to switching this up, where can people go to find us?

Brandi Sea: 23:51 Oh my gosh. You’re freaking me out. You can find us on all forms of social media at B. R. A. N. D. I. S. E. A.

Michelle: 24:01 Brandi Sea.

Brandi Sea: 24:02 And uh, yeah, give us your feedback. I’ve been getting, I’ve been getting some little snippets of just like, Hey, here’s what I’ve been doing and stuff.

Michelle: 24:10 We got to hear from a two year, um, design student. Like she’s in her second year.

Brandi Sea: 24:16 Yep.

Michelle: 24:16 That was fun.

Brandi Sea: 24:17 She’s, Yep, she’s said that it was really helpful and I love to hear that from you guys. Um, also thanks to Vesperteen for allowing us as always to use his brilliant music on our podcasts.

Michelle: 24:30 And we’ll see you later.

Brandi Sea: 24:32 Bye guys